Lord Emsworth
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Mar 10, 2020 11:04:55 GMT
I'm currently on episode two of....
The Yorkshire Ripper Files: A Very British Crime Story ...which is currently on the BBC iPlayer It's a modern documentary but deals with the murders which took place between 1975–1980 so I've posted in this section It's a fascinating documentary, loads of interesting archive footage plus modern interviews with people associated with the case The West Yorkshire Police come out of it very badly The primary mistake (of many) was to discount crimes against those who weren't prostitutes, believing that the Ripper hated prostitutes. This despite compelling evidence to the contrary Anyway, for anyone interested in the era, or in True Crime, this is well worth watching
It's on iPlayer for 17 days
The blurb for episode one.... Documentary series opening, in 1975, with the first three years of the investigation into finding the Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe. The location of the first two murders in Chapeltown - then well known as Leeds’s main red light district - leads the police to decide that prostitution is the connection between the attacks, but also to them coming up with a neat theory about the killer’s motivation. After the second murder in January 1976, the police announce that they are hunting a ‘prostitute killer’, which had significant implications for how the investigation proceeded.
Speaking to the children of some of the very first murder victims and to police officers who worked on the investigation, as well as to journalists who covered the murders, Liza Williams explores the difference between the way the women were characterised by the investigation and how they are remembered by those who knew and loved them. Meeting a survivor of one of Sutcliffe’s earlier attacks, as well as the daughter of another, Liza finds out how their vital eyewitness evidence was ignored because neither were prostitutes and did not, as a result, fit the victim profile the police had decided upon.
While the police ploughed on with their theory of that the murderer was targeting prostitutes, the killer remained at large. Between February 1977 and May 1978 Peter Sutcliffe murdered seven more women.
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Sparky
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Post by Sparky on Mar 10, 2020 12:03:47 GMT
I'm currently on episode two of....
The Yorkshire Ripper Files: A Very British Crime Story ...which is currently on the BBC iPlayer It's a modern documentary but deals with the murders which took place between 1975–1980 so I've posted in this section It's a fascinating documentary, loads of interesting archive footage plus modern interviews with people associated with the case The West Yorkshire Police come out of it very badly The primary mistake (of many) was to discount crimes against those who weren't prostitutes, believing that the Ripper hated prostitutes. This despite compelling evidence to the contrary Anyway, for anyone interested in the era, or in True Crime, this is well worth watching
It's on iPlayer for 17 days
The blurb for episode one.... Documentary series opening, in 1975, with the first three years of the investigation into finding the Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe. The location of the first two murders in Chapeltown - then well known as Leeds’s main red light district - leads the police to decide that prostitution is the connection between the attacks, but also to them coming up with a neat theory about the killer’s motivation. After the second murder in January 1976, the police announce that they are hunting a ‘prostitute killer’, which had significant implications for how the investigation proceeded.
Speaking to the children of some of the very first murder victims and to police officers who worked on the investigation, as well as to journalists who covered the murders, Liza Williams explores the difference between the way the women were characterised by the investigation and how they are remembered by those who knew and loved them. Meeting a survivor of one of Sutcliffe’s earlier attacks, as well as the daughter of another, Liza finds out how their vital eyewitness evidence was ignored because neither were prostitutes and did not, as a result, fit the victim profile the police had decided upon.
While the police ploughed on with their theory of that the murderer was targeting prostitutes, the killer remained at large. Between February 1977 and May 1978 Peter Sutcliffe murdered seven more women.Not seen this - but will do.
My Neighbour - who is a Copper; originally from Bradford way - told me a tale about the Yorkshire Ripper. His Mum used to bump into Sutcliffe in various Pubs near Leeds around 1974-1975 - and one night he offered her a lift home as it was raining - but luckily (for her) she had booked a Taxi and took that option. How different that could have worked out. Though sadly, doesn't make up for those who were murdered.
He also had a bit to do with the arrest and questioning of the Geordie Hoaxer they locked up around 2006.
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Lord Emsworth
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Mar 10, 2020 12:24:54 GMT
With your inside info Sparky I reckon you'd really get a lot from this documentary It's shocking to learn that the police had a hierarchy of victims. The Ripper initially preyed on prostitutes in Chapeltown. Although the bodies began to pile up the police didn't seem to be that bothered. It's only when a 16 year-old shop assistant called Jayne MacDonald, more respectable and described as “innocent” (and implying the other women were not) did things move up a gear. Leeds in the late 70s comes over as v grim.
Also some of the stories of how some of the Ripper's victims became involved in prostitution are heartbreaking.
As I say, it's a fascinating watch.
Two and a bit weeks until it disappears from the iPlayer
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Mar 10, 2020 12:29:05 GMT
By the way, and by way of contrast, there's another true crime documentary on the iPlayer called...
Murder 24/7
...which is also very interesting and I recommend it
It deals with three recent murder cases in Essex
What's so striking is how today with computers, CCTV, DNA analysis, smartphones, search engines and sophisticated data management etc the Police are able to solve murders much more efficiently.
The contrast with the Ripper investigation couldn't be starker
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Sparky
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Post by Sparky on Mar 10, 2020 13:30:34 GMT
By the way, and by way of contrast, there's another true crime documentary on the iPlayer called...
Murder 24/7
...which is also very interesting and I recommend it
It deals with three recent murder cases in Essex
What's so striking is how today with computers, CCTV, DNA analysis, smartphones, search engines and sophisticated data management etc the Police are able to solve murders much more efficiently.
The contrast with the Ripper investigation couldn't be starker
Stocking all these up to watch after I come out of hospital when (if it does happen) I have my Knee op. So need plenty to watch - as watching daytime TV will drive me mad!
I love these documentaries - they only seem to pop up every now and again - but more so when they include lost or new material that has surfaced. In a another thread, we were discussing the Gt Train Robbery, much of that is widely known - though new stuff keeps creeping out.
Most Police forces have a Cold Case unit, who'll re examine evidence from unsolved crimes - many with a success too.
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Lord Emsworth
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Mar 10, 2020 13:52:15 GMT
Good luck with your knee op Sparky
Do bear in mind the Ripper doc is only around for a couple of weeks - not sure about Murder 24/7
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Post by Vienna on Mar 10, 2020 18:38:47 GMT
Thanks for posting this Lord Em. These documentaries are always interesting, even if there have been several of them on TV before. The 1970s certainly had its fair share of notorious murder cases... and sadly they often seemed to involve an incompetent police investigation into them. Vi
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Mar 10, 2020 21:30:20 GMT
That 24/7 prog is good Em, plus I will watch the Ripper one.
I'm afraid the police were very often incompetent, the Hillsborough thing was appalling, getting officers to change their stories and the ambulance crews. West Midlands Seriously Bent Squad put the wrong people behind bars and not by accident. They are very poor at admitting their mistakes. Mind you so are the NHS who resort of NDAs at the drop of a hat.
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Post by Sparky on Mar 12, 2020 7:21:09 GMT
That 24/7 prog is good Em, plus I will watch the Ripper one. I'm afraid the police were very often incompetent, the Hillsborough thing was appalling, getting officers to change their stories and the ambulance crews. West Midlands Seriously Bent Squad put the wrong people behind bars and not by accident. They are very poor at admitting their mistakes. Mind you so are the NHS who resort of NDAs at the drop of a hat. That's true.
Though again, with the Police in general, Corruption was so much more active - not just in the Met Police, but in Forces across the country. It was easier to get away with stuff - such as mysteriously lose Evidence (for a price), alter statements and even fabricate evidence and statements.
Sutcliffe was dragged in for questioning a number of times - but released without any charge. One of the detectives who questioned him made numerous statements to his superiors about his suspicions and that he "wasn't happy" with Sutcliffes answers and so called alibis, and that he should be kept in Custody until he has satisfied all questions.
His superiors told the officer to release him. And then he went out and killed again.
To be fair, the tape from the Hoaxer threw them off the scent totally - BUT, I'll never understand why they closed all other avenues and concentrated on this one tape - looking for a Male with a Geordie accent. The fact it may just be a hoax didn't seem to be considered.
I find it interesting Sutcliffe was mates with Jimmy Saville. And we all know what happened when his tricks were reported to Superiors and Police....... Just a funny coincidence.
There is a train of thought that Saville's wrong doings were going to be unveiled if Sutcliffe was arrested - hence why he kept getting released.
On the Saville thing - my Neighbour when he became a DC had to take numerous statements from people making complaints against him. The Protocol was, take a statement and pass it to the DCI. You don't go crashing round his house and nick him (as would happen with anyone else). The matter once in the DCI's hands would be taken away from him by a Superintendent - and passed to a "Special Department at Scotland Yard" - where it would vanish into thin air. If you tried to follow it up - you were met with, er Resistance.
When the Saville story broke, my neighbour dug out his Police pocket books and his diaries, just in case there was a come back.
Certainly something very smelly about both cases.
I feel sorry for the Victims and Families both people affected - but the stories are fascinating.
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Mar 12, 2020 12:14:57 GMT
That 24/7 prog is good Em, plus I will watch the Ripper one. I'm afraid the police were very often incompetent, the Hillsborough thing was appalling, getting officers to change their stories and the ambulance crews. West Midlands Seriously Bent Squad put the wrong people behind bars and not by accident. They are very poor at admitting their mistakes. Mind you so are the NHS who resort of NDAs at the drop of a hat. That's true.
Though again, with the Police in general, Corruption was so much more active - not just in the Met Police, but in Forces across the country. It was easier to get away with stuff - such as mysteriously lose Evidence (for a price), alter statements and even fabricate evidence and statements.
Sutcliffe was dragged in for questioning a number of times - but released without any charge. One of the detectives who questioned him made numerous statements to his superiors about his suspicions and that he "wasn't happy" with Sutcliffes answers and so called alibis, and that he should be kept in Custody until he has satisfied all questions.
His superiors told the officer to release him. And then he went out and killed again.
To be fair, the tape from the Hoaxer threw them off the scent totally - BUT, I'll never understand why they closed all other avenues and concentrated on this one tape - looking for a Male with a Geordie accent. The fact it may just be a hoax didn't seem to be considered.
I find it interesting Sutcliffe was mates with Jimmy Saville. And we all know what happened when his tricks were reported to Superiors and Police....... Just a funny coincidence.
There is a train of thought that Saville's wrong doings were going to be unveiled if Sutcliffe was arrested - hence why he kept getting released.
On the Saville thing - my Neighbour when he became a DC had to take numerous statements from people making complaints against him. The Protocol was, take a statement and pass it to the DCI. You don't go crashing round his house and nick him (as would happen with anyone else). The matter once in the DCI's hands would be taken away from him by a Superintendent - and passed to a "Special Department at Scotland Yard" - where it would vanish into thin air. If you tried to follow it up - you were met with, er Resistance.
When the Saville story broke, my neighbour dug out his Police pocket books and his diaries, just in case there was a come back.
Certainly something very smelly about both cases.
I feel sorry for the Victims and Families both people affected - but the stories are fascinating.
I remember hearing something on the radio about Saville. It was a police officer who in the 70s who came across a car late one night in the countryside near Leeds. When he looked in he saw Saville with a girl. He asked what he was up to or something similar and Saville said I am waiting for midnight, after which she is 16. As the father of a teenage girl I would have liked the opportunity to punch his lights out.
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