Sparky
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Post by Sparky on Mar 12, 2020 12:38:30 GMT
I remember hearing something on the radio about Saville. It was a police officer who in the 70s who came across a car late one night in the countryside near Leeds. When he looked in he saw Saville with a girl. He asked what he was up to or something similar and Saville said I am waiting for midnight, after which she is 16. As the father of a teenage girl I would have liked the opportunity to punch his lights out. The more surprising thing is that Saville was waiting for Midnight and the Girl to turn 16 - as we know now, age wasn't normally an issue.
There's a few coppers who wanted to punch his lights out as well!
There is a certain protocol in place when it comes to the arrest of Celebs (though Cliff Richard may argue differently) - and it all has to be done "by appointment" via the Celebs solicitor and all that.
The press tend to report it as "Asked to attend a police station".
Still - with the Yorkshire Ripper case, I still think there is a lot covered up - whether they be genuine Police mistakes or something else. People argue that the Police didn't have the scientific methods they have now - such as DNA testing, all police paperwork and records were still stored on Paper - no computer cross referencing of evidence/statements - so details were easier to miss.
But, I always assumed that the way an investigation was co-ordinated by the Police set the way for how successful it would be.
The Gt Train Robbery had this issue - with Buckinghamshire Police initially running the enquiry - but Scotland Yard ended up running it because Buckinghamshire didn't have the experience or co-ordination.
It shows a lack of training and an attitude within the police that once existed.
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Lord Emsworth
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Mar 12, 2020 14:52:34 GMT
All of those issues are dealt with in the documentary Sparky. I've now finished it. It's really interesting and very well done.
The way it is portrayed in the documentary, the West Yorkshire Police were incompetent rather than corrupt (at least as far as the Yorkshire Ripper goes).
The hoax tape completely derailed the investigation - but it is not clear why the senior officers found it so compelling and the Byford Report (which you can now read online) was especially critical of this catastrophic mistake
The WY Police had some strong evidence against Sutcliffe (tyre marks, a fiver he was paid with at Clarks, his workplace, eyewitnesses, survivors who had heard his voice and knew he was from Yorkshire) and yet they couldn't put it together
It was actually beat cops in Sheffield (South Yorkshire) who caught him during a routine stop.
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Post by Arthur Pringle on Mar 12, 2020 17:11:56 GMT
Last year I read 'Somebody's Husband, Somebody's Son', a matter of fact account of the Sutcliffe case by Gordon Burn ( not The Krypton Factor presenter ), I didn't finish it as it was relentlessly depressing.
If it wasn't for the fact that keeping people like Sutcliffe alive can prove essential in terms of recovering information about the whereabouts of the victim's bodies ( always essential for their families peace of mind ), I would absolutely be in favour of capital punishment for such people. As for the hoaxer, 3 years is all he served.
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Sparky
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Post by Sparky on Mar 12, 2020 17:35:46 GMT
All of those issues are dealt with in the documentary Sparky. I've now finished it. It's really interesting and very well done.
The way it is portrayed in the documentary, the West Yorkshire Police were incompetent rather than corrupt (at least as far as the Yorkshire Ripper goes).
The hoax tape completely derailed the investigation - but it is not clear why the senior officers found it so compelling and the Byford Report (which you can now read online) was especially critical of this catastrophic mistake
The WY Police had some strong evidence against Sutcliffe (tyre marks, a fiver he was paid with at Clarks, his workplace, eyewitnesses, survivors who had heard his voice and knew he was from Yorkshire) and yet they couldn't put it together
It was actually beat cops in Sheffield (South Yorkshire) who caught him during a routine stop.
Indeed, I think it was more lack of proper experience with West Yorkshire Police than it was Corruption. I think at first - some of the Murders weren't linked - though had evidence been looked at more carefully, they could have been.
I would think, that's why they have Murder Squads and such these days.
I suppose, it shows why the Met Police for years had different squads - Fraud Squad, Organised Crime Squad, Drug Squad, Vice Squad and of course, the Flying Squad - they all have detectives who specialise in certain areas of crime - where they were supposed to share intel.
In the "Sweeney" - the rivalry between the groups was shown a bit too - esp in "Supersnout" and I think in "Regan".
Indeed, a couple of Uniformed Cops stopped Sutcliffe in Sheffield. The same thing happened with the "Black Panther" - he was stopped in Mansfield by Uniform Cops for a faulty Brake Light or something daft.
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Sparky
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Post by Sparky on Mar 12, 2020 17:48:04 GMT
Last year I read 'Somebody's Husband, Somebody's Son', a matter of fact account of the Sutcliffe case by Gordon Burn ( not The Krypton Factor presenter ), I didn't finish it as it was relentlessly depressing.
If it wasn't for the fact that keeping people like Sutcliffe alive can prove essential in terms of recovering information about the whereabouts of the victim's bodies ( always essential for their families peace of mind ), I would absolutely be in favour of capital punishment for such people. As for the hoaxer, 3 years is all he served.
I will look for this book! Thanks Arthur.
Ian Brady still wouldn't disclose where he buried Keith Bennets body on Saddleworth Moor; he took that to his grave. Police (unofficially) do use the services of reputable and registered Mediums/Clairvoyants to help find dead bodies. It isn't routinely, though some forces have used them to help.
My stance on that is this - I am not convinced about Zombies & Demons from the dead roaming this earth like some George Romero film.
But I do believe in Ghosts - I've seen one - and photographed the bugger.
I believe it's something scientific. (This is another thread on it's own) - but it involves Energy / Magnetic Fields and Ends of the Light spectrum only visible to certain people. The latter I proved when I had my photo anylised and authenticated.
About 12 years ago, I worked on the Channel 4 Drama "Red Riding" adapted from the 4 David Peace books. They made three episodes - "1974", "1980" and "1983" - I worked on the first two.
The books - though fictional - were set around Leeds based around the "Ripper" era, but curiously there are a lot of parallels from the Jimmy Saville saga too.
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Post by Gene Hunt on Mar 12, 2020 18:12:55 GMT
But I do believe in Ghosts - I've seen one - and photographed the bugger. Evidence? Gene.
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Sparky
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Post by Sparky on Mar 12, 2020 18:48:19 GMT
But I do believe in Ghosts - I've seen one - and photographed the bugger. Evidence? Gene. Just emailed Admin with said photo and backstory.
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Post by Gene Hunt on Mar 12, 2020 19:43:11 GMT
Evidence? Gene. Just emailed Admin with said photo and backstory.
Photo now posted for members only here :- Sparky Ghost
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Villain
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Post by Villain on Mar 12, 2020 19:43:28 GMT
Last year I read 'Somebody's Husband, Somebody's Son', a matter of fact account of the Sutcliffe case by Gordon Burn ( not The Krypton Factor presenter ), I didn't finish it as it was relentlessly depressing.
If it wasn't for the fact that keeping people like Sutcliffe alive can prove essential in terms of recovering information about the whereabouts of the victim's bodies ( always essential for their families peace of mind ), I would absolutely be in favour of capital punishment for such people. As for the hoaxer, 3 years is all he served.
I will look for this book! Thanks Arthur.
Ian Brady still wouldn't disclose where he buried Keith Bennets body on Saddleworth Moor; he took that to his grave. Police (unofficially) do use the services of reputable and registered Mediums/Clairvoyants to help find dead bodies. It isn't routinely, though some forces have used them to help.
My stance on that is this - I am not convinced about Zombies & Demons from the dead roaming this earth like some George Romero film.
But I do believe in Ghosts - I've seen one - and photographed the bugger.
I believe it's something scientific. (This is another thread on it's own) - but it involves Energy / Magnetic Fields and Ends of the Light spectrum only visible to certain people. The latter I proved when I had my photo anylised and authenticated.
About 12 years ago, I worked on the Channel 4 Drama "Red Riding" adapted from the 4 David Peace books. They made three episodes - "1974", "1980" and "1983" - I worked on the first two.
The books - though fictional - were set around Leeds based around the "Ripper" era, but curiously there are a lot of parallels from the Jimmy Saville saga too.
I really enjoyed the 'Red Riding' three parter, particularly the first one '1974', it was very well done all round. The large detached house that Sean Bean's character lived in struck a chord as one of my relatives lived in a similar sprawling gaff in the early '70s, my cousins and I used to visit from time to time and we always felt as though we were entering a different world. Strange to think than in less than twelve months time it'll be forty years since the ripper was caught and arrested. Villain
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Vienna
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Post by Vienna on Mar 12, 2020 19:53:44 GMT
I have just been watching this documentary on The "Yorkshire Ripper" case and found it a fascinating insight into what turned out to be a badly bungled police investigation by the West Yorkshire force. The general attitude at the time towards women and particularly prostitutes together with various errors including being taken in by a hoaxer from Sunderland all contributed to the sorry mess they unfortunately made. Thanks again to Lord Em for making us aware of this programme Vi
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