Lord Emsworth
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 4, 2020 20:31:38 GMT
I've just watched the first two episodes
Although it's quite slow moving it's also very absorbing. There are a lot of characters to get to know and they are slowly revealed.
Frank's technique of raising some ready cash in episode two is very enjoyable.
Overall it's hard to see things ending well for Frank, but I look forward to discovering how it all plays out, as I can't remember anything about the plot.
Really looking forward to continuing with Out
Thanks for inspiring me to snap up a copy
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Lord Emsworth
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 7, 2020 11:36:58 GMT
I finished Out last night
Tom Bell as Frank Ross is excellent, and his cool, brooding, single minded and relentless presence is what makes it work so well. It's hard to imagine many other actors being so perfect in the role. Frank Ross may be selfish and inconsiderate but it's impossible not to root for him.
Out is awash with great set piece scenes: the scuffle with the knife wielding thug; the private poker game; Frank's reunion with his mistress; tracking down each member of the heist that went wrong etc.
The supporting cast are all splendid too, as are the South London locations
The overall theme of whether the ends justify the means, and how the police have to resist expedient quick fixes, is timeless
My only criticism is that perhaps Trevor Preston was a bit over ambitious and so many intriguing plot strands were left hanging - what happens to the sick wife, to Frank's wayward son, to Chris's bankrupt business etc?
It superb, and really needed a second series.
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Post by Dirty Epic on Jan 8, 2020 9:07:34 GMT
Some very good posts and glad you all enjoyed your recent watches of Out too. Hope this doesn’t repeat some of what I’ve already posted about Out but I agree with Villain that the actors played these characters very naturally too. There’s certainly no ‘Mockney’ Guy Richie cliché’s here either. Instead you’re drawn into and believe in the world inhabited by Frank, Chris, McGrath/Pavey, Bryce/Rimmer/Hallam, ‘Big’ Ralph, ‘Pretty’ Billy/Alison, Kath (Simmie), Lew/Eddie, Bernie, Anne/Eve and many others who I suppose would have been true to life with their equivalents back then. It’s interesting that the main protagonist – McGrath who was also superbly played by Brian Cox, is a Scottish rather than London villain too perhaps pointing to the ways in which organised crime was moving as we approached the '80's then '90's. I sure that wouldn’t be the case if Out was made now… heaven forbid in a Richie/Nick Love style.
Yes Tom Bell is brilliantly cast as Frank Ross but everyone involved in Out are very good and very believable in the characters they portray particularly so Brian Cox, Brian Croucher, John Junkin, Derrick O’Connor, Norman Rodway, Bryan Marshall, Peter Blake, Andrew Paul, Lynne Farleigh, Victoria Fairbrother, Maurice O’Connell, Tania Rogers, Stanley Meadws, Oscar James and many others.
Preston’s depiction of Ross is also very interesting too. Yes he’s a villain who’s activities for some are frowned and looked down upon by many in (back then) general society. These activities can and do have many negative and tragic consequences not only for Ross but for many who around him too. His 8-year stretch robs him of many things during that time not just the way his family implodes due to his wife suffering chronic mental illness/breakdown but also the son (Paul) he doesn’t see grow up, doesn’t really know and seems hell bent on a path of self destruction which at best will mark him for life, at worst send him down the same/similar path Frank has trodden too. You can see the point why Frank wants to know who ‘grassed’ him but by finding this out Ross get’s into a very dangerous world where he and those around him are fair game and the lives of Anne, ‘Pretty’ Billy, Simmie, Eddie and Pavey are all casualties in this quest. Even to some extent Eve, Paul, Chris, McGrath and Hallam/Bryce/Rimmer aren’t left unscathed by all this either although not everyone is an innocent victim here either. Frank himself is both victim and to blame too in the fact he’s lost friends and significant period of his younger life through his choices and activities. Tom Bell portrays that aspect very well particularly with how he dresses initially in suits which look decades old to the (then) fashions of the time and trying to pick his life up who where he left off, which 8 years down the line. He simply can’t. It’s that ambiguity which draws you in and as I’ve said despite knowing Ross is a serious villain with a lot of baggage (for me) you do warm to him and see some point with Preston’s narrative for him. We don’t know whether or not he had a choice in going down his road, however he does know who and what he is and does seem to have a fairly high moral code within the world he operates in. He tries to look after and is loyal to the ‘firm’ he works with – perhaps more than it should be than his relationship to his own family. Ross also doesn’t get or tries not to get involved in unnecessary wars with others (Lew/McGrath) and before his prison stretch did seem to be good at what he did. His successes irk Bryce who at all costs tries to nail Ross and when events conspire that McGrath is put into a situation where it’s either him or Ross that will go down for that ‘big one’ the morality of what Bryce does through McGrath to nail Ross certainly makes you think about it and to some extent you can see the point of view about morality that Ross brings up in the closing confrontation he has with Bryce about why and who has the right to the moral high ground here. Bryce’s moral high ground stance is shot to pieces by Ross in the final episode to the extent that his all-costs quest to convict Ross perhaps left behind a worse situation in McGrath being given free reign to conduct his activities which perhaps had worse long term consequences if Ross was nailed perhaps in another way. The respect Rimmer has for Bryce is blown away in this final scenes too although it’s interesting he gives him the tape as a final act of loyalty and Bryce does the right thing by handing this over co-operating with the investigation. I’m not sure whether he knew someone with a similar story to Ross or some bits and pieces of elements of this from his South London background but I agree with you Arthur that it’s a credit to Preston’s ideas/writing style that he focuses in not so much on a crime story but the consequences of it and the damage this brings Frank, his family and those around him that makes Out such a draw to me more than 40 years on too. It's certainly as far removed as you can get from Preston's Messenger of The Gods, Sweeney episode. I know it was a serial and they’re generally treated as one-off’s but the open way of McGrath’s departure, Frank’s finding out of who ‘grassed’ him and the aftermath of all that left behind gave me the feeling that a follow-up serial could have happened. They certainly have done that for other things before. However the originality of Out is it is one-off which you certainly don’t see the likes of now. It’s a shame Out hasn’t been picked up for a repeat on say channel’s like ITV3 or Drama although it’s harder-edged style doesn’t quite fit in with the more genteel (sic) programming that these channels show – ad-nausea. Having said that Drama have shown things like Juliet Bravo, London’s Burning, The Bill etc. and Out could possibly maybe fit in with that. One channel it would be more at home with is Talking Pictures who’ve shown Thames/Euston Films shows like Special Branch, Hazell and Widows so Out would be ideal to get an outing on there. Also TP tend to not edit the episodes (or not as much) as it would if it were shown elsewhere too. Shame I can’t find any contact details for TP I’d consider sending that as a suggestion to them. Fox is a different animal from Out, perhaps more easy going and with a different narrative about family and relationships within a South London family, perhaps deserves discussion in a separate thread. That said it’s very much well worth getting hold off and is a good companion to this too. Yes I’ll have to give Out a spin at some point very soon too, I’ll have to get organised in looking at some of the locations it was filmed in too, I know the likes of Brixton, Croydon, Tulse Hill, Streatham etc. all seem to be featured and some seem to be in lets say some of the challenging area’s of South London these days but I’m sure I can have a scout round them some day soon. Glad you enjoyed your recent watches of Out too lads.
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Lord Emsworth
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Jan 8, 2020 19:03:55 GMT
Thanks Epic - I thoroughly enjoyed reading that I got a cheapo DVD of Fox so will be watching that one soon too and will, as you suggest, set up a separate discussion thread for it when the time comes, unless someone beats me to it....
Jan 8, 2020 9:07:34 GMT Dirty Epic said: Fox is a different animal from Out, perhaps more easy going and with a different narrative about family and relationships within a South London family, perhaps deserves discussion in a separate thread. That said it’s very much well worth getting hold off and is a good companion to this too.
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Villain
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Post by Villain on Jan 8, 2020 20:38:31 GMT
Excellent posts both DE and LE, really enjoyed reading them. DE your reading of 'Out' is spot on in so many ways, it really was and still is a real stand alone piece, even with the open ending. The language really flows naturally throughout, not at all like the much later Guy Ritchie stuff. In '70s London certain types of people really did speak to eachother like that without any 'irony' or knowing put ons, it was just how they were, plain and simple. There was a definite feeling of 'us and them' between those who upheld the law and those who often broke it or worked their way round it on a daily basis. There was a definite demarcation and a certain amount of grudging respect between the two sides too, mostly anyway. If 'Out' were made today, no matter how hard the production company involved tried not to, it would cdoubtless ome across as just a bunch of comedy cockernee geezers flapping about for effect with no basis in reality. Let's hope nobody gives it a try eh... Villain
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Jan 8, 2020 20:48:53 GMT
Excellent posts both DE and LE, really enjoyed reading them. DE your reading of 'Out' is spot on in so many ways, it really was and still is a real stand alone piece, even with the open ending. The language really flows naturally throughout, not at all like the much later Guy Ritchie stuff. In '70s London certain types of people really did speak to eachother like that without any 'irony' or knowing put ons, it was just how they were, plain and simple. There was a definite feeling of 'us and them' between those who upheld the law and those who often broke it or worked their way round it on a daily basis. There was a definite demarcation and a certain amount of grudging respect between the two sides too, mostly anyway. If 'Out' were made today, no matter how hard the production company involved tried not to, it would cdoubtless ome across as just a bunch of comedy cockernee geezers flapping about for effect with no basis in reality. Let's hope nobody gives it a try eh... Villain Frank Ross is back in "Out and About"!
Starring - some token cockney geezer from EastEnders probably.
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Post by Gene Hunt on Jan 8, 2020 20:56:03 GMT
Not Shane Richie surely
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Jan 8, 2020 21:12:50 GMT
Wasn't Frank Ross the name of the bad guy in Bullitt?
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Jan 8, 2020 21:14:52 GMT
Wasn't Frank Ross the name of the bad guy in Bullitt? No, it was Johnny
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Post by Dirty Epic on Jan 8, 2020 22:57:52 GMT
Not Shane Richie surely Danny Dyer would be the go to here.
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