Yeah I know... with some of these on these repeats LE, high maintenance!
You can probably tell what I've watched/recorded and not bothered with!
Fortunately the later '89 and 1990 episodes will have the Roses, Mondays, 808 State, Electribre 101, The Beloved, Inspiral Carpets, Primal Scream, Orbital, The Farm, and Electronic and many similar acts to sort of level the score of what we've seen so far.
Again thought it was time to review a few of the recent showings on BBC Four.
The good and half decent selection include (and I’m 50/50 on this one), Lisa Stansfield’s, This is the Right Time a decent-ish if perhaps uninspiring and bland Dance/Synthpop number. The problem is it sounds a bit similar to her collaboration with Colduct earlier in 1989 – AFIAK it may have been produced by them? I’ve certainly heard a lot worse but heard better too, still deserves a airing from these repeats. Neneh Cherry is back with the more up-tempo Kisses on the Wind which for me still ticks the boxes although it’s not quite as good as Buffalo Stance and Manchild.
Didn’t know whether to like or hate Liza Minnelli’s, Losing My Mind. Hate the term comeback’s but it did sort of relaunch and revive her career again which up to that point seemed forgotten and buried in the past of Cabaret etc. Being honest it’s a de-facto Pet Shop Boys track which probably lifts things up here considerably and again like Lisa Stansfield it’s good enough to have some recognition from that period.
Not ones I’d generally like or even think about again but quirky non the less and I’m glad did get a repeat were Dog’s D’Amour’s, Satellite Kid and Gun’s, Better Days. They represent the last gasp of the underground rock scene – not really Metal but not really Goth, Punk or Indie either, before Madchester, Indie and later Britpop take over the UK Rock scene and sort of relegated these sort of bands to the sidelines. Gun would return a few years later with a fairly interesting Rock cover of Cameo’s Word Up too.
Depeche Mode, The Cure and to some extent Lil’ Louis, Queen, Malcolm McLaren, Guns N Roses, Jodie Whately & Eric B and Rakim, and Adeva all seem to be represented by promo vid’s so not really too much to report on them.
Aswad’s On & On cover was a bit bland a bit pop/lite-Reggae by numbers. Likewise the likes of Eurythmics, Tears For Fears, Fuzzbox, Alison Williams and Then Jerico were a bit un-inspired for me… perhaps not necessarily with bad efforts/songs but inspired none the less, some more than others.
We then start to get to the poorer selections. A few of the Dance tracks from that period like Starlight’s, Numero Uno (see later) and (if it can be classed as ‘Dance’? ) Damian’s, The Time Warp have dated badly and don’t have the quirks, novelty or nostalgia that say Krush, Bomb the Bass or S-Express from ’88 had. Not quite as good as their earlier stuff is The Beatmasters Hey DJ (I Can’t Dance To That Music You’re Playing) which made a star of rapper/vocalist Betty Boo who then went massive as a solo artist in 1990. Ms Boo (Alison Clarkson) was way too pop for my taste and this is certainly not a 1989 Dance classic in the company of say Frankie Knuckles Tears – which did not make the Top 40 , Lil’ Louis, French Kiss, The Beloved’s, Sun Rising, Nightmares on Wax’s, Dextrous – which did not make the Top 40, The Beat Club’s, Security – which again did not make the Top 40, Electribe 101’s, Tell Me When The Fever Ended, Unique 3’s, The Theme, Rhythim Is Rhythim (Derrick May's), Beyond The Dance - again not in the Top 40, or 808 State’s Pacific. For me it feels a bit empty a bit of a nothing record compared to their earlier stuff the Beatmasters did. You could say it's pop Hip House by numbers for me and in retrospect isn’t that much different from the S/A/W output of that period, albeit with House and Hip Hop stylings thrown in. Generally by that summer the Hip House thing seemed at saturation point and more Rave related tracks would emerge in 1990-92 which if you like that music or not at least did take it forward and kept changing and reinventing itself too.
Speaking of S/A/W more of their tosh rears it’s ugly head in the form of Big Fun this time. They’ve had a couple of studio’s with this absolutely lame cover of The Jackson’s classic on these recent repeats and I noticed something I never did before – hopefully will forget again soon, despite having three vocalists the vocals sound exactly the samefor all of them… did S/A/W just get three faces to front Big Fun and get a session musician in to do the vocals? I wouldn’t put it past them and let’s be honest any P.A.’s or concerts for S/A/W acts they did around that time would all be on playback, sequenced, all mimed so it could very much possible IMHO? Being honest S/A/W probably nicked the idea for this ‘Boogie’ cover from Norman Cook’s Blame It On The Bassline that was out a few months earlier too and depending on your point of view Cook’s track was arguably much, much better and more original (for it’s time) than this shite ever was!
Other S/A/W efforts with varying degree’s include Donna Summer’s, Love’s About To Change My Heart and Cliff Richard’s, I Just Don’t Have The Heart… I leave you to draw your own conclusions on them!
Again how the hell was that Jive Bunny pony able to hold off competition from arguably good and original songs from Alice Cooper and Lil’ Louis back then? It almost held off Black Box too!
Yes and controversially we get Black Box’s Italian House juggernaut which was probably the best thing they ever made and does in my opinion justify it being recognised as the Dance classic it became, right for the time, not to way out (i.e. Rave) to miss the chart and was probably played at every holiday resort from Blackpool to Marbella to Bondi to Miami that summer. It’s certainly stood the test of time a lot more than many other Dance hits from ’89 (see Beatmasters etc. above) and is head and shoulders above the other Italian House track in the charts at that time Starlight’s Numero Uno which was produced by the same people as Black Box!
What I don’t really like about Ride on Time is the blatant way it samples the living daylights out of Loleatta Holloway’s Love Sensation with model Katrin Quinol passed off as the miming vocalist here. A strange fact was the producer Daniele Davoli thought Holloway’s vocal was ‘Ride’ rather than ‘Right on Time’ and rightly so they (eventually) got forced to remove the vocals on subsequent releases… although Hollowaydidn’t get any credit for her role in ‘Ride on Time’ nor anything else out of it before her death in 2011.
Sort of sours the taste here but even now you drop that song in any club from the most cheesiest commercial venue to an absolute underground crowd they’ll be up and dancing instantly to it – even 31 years on! It’s just a shame they were such cheeky sods in how they made it!!!
As selective as I’m being from these repeats and there is plenty of how the hell did that become a hit, sometimes big hit’s I’m still enjoying these TOTP repeats and looking forward to the next forthcoming showings on BBC Four. I’m sure some of the stuff I like, hate or indifferent too here is one man’s meet another man’s poison but as with every era of music – even today, there’s plenty of nuggets, new things and reinvention from the underground to enjoy amongst the bland and novelty pap too.
I thought the time was right for a review of the recent and forthcoming ’89 showings on BBC Four recently. Hope I don’t go on but there’s a lot going on which I hope may interest you – especially the episodes upcoming this week!
Suppose as in the previous posts it’s a hit and mixed bag of stuff that’s been shown over the last few weeks. Let’s begin with the good.
Electribe 101’s Tell Me When The Fever Ended is a good Dance track from that period. Featuring vocalist Billie Ray Martin who’d become a very successful solo artist in the mid ‘90’s it along with the Beloved’s, The Sun Rising (see later) were early examples of the Dance scene starting to mature, starting to be something more than the sampledelic, ‘jackin’’ tracks which had pretty much gone before and certainly had something more than the Hip House/Italian House tracks around at that time. Electribe 101 would follow that up with the equally good Talking With Myself, Your Walking and Inside Out in 1990 and the album Electribal Memories before quietly disappearing around ‘91/92.
Next up The Beloved and The Sun Rising. Criminally TOTP only had this as a ‘Breaker’ and considering it was getting a lot of airplay around that time it would have been nice for them to have done a studio with this track. ‘Sun Rising’ is simply a Dance anthem and is very much held in high regard 31 years on and even reappeared almost 10 years later in 1997 with a remix that was almost as good as the original… almost!
It has all the elements, good vocal, intelligent House production etc. but the killer is their use of samples from ‘O Euchari’ by Emily Van Evera and equally that would also be used very successfully by Orbital – who should appear with Chime if the 1990 episodes are repeated , for their track Belfast too. Even if you don’t like Dance Music I’d defy you not to enjoy either of these tracks.
I’ll say it again The Beloved should’ve had a studio for this, but they will in early 1990 with the name dropping ‘Hello’ that again I quite like from this period and the general conclusion is the elements are coming together for Dance music… especially it’s embrace from former Rock and Indie acts, to become something substantial something which moved that scene on from ‘acieeed’ (sic) Summer’s of Love to a scene which evolved and I feel moved music forward positively in the decade that followed and beyond.
Another one I like was Fresh 4’s cover of Wishing On A Star an early example of the emerging Bristol sound Massive Attack would enjoy great success with, that (rightly or wrongly) be labelled Trip Hop in the ‘90’s too – in many respects that scene and music is a bit more than just that label or simply an extension of Hip Hop either. Sadly we only a snatch of their promo over the end credits and like The Beloved they sort of deserved a studio, maybe they were offered one but either declined or wanted to play live etc. but still would have been a better than a lot of the acts which did get a studio over these last few weeks.
I enjoyed S-Express’ Mantra For A State Of Mind too something a bit different from the sample-centric stuff they’d done previously and pointing towards the Rave sound that would emerge over the coming decade. The Extended Club and Baby Ford Experience mixes are worth a listen and Primal Scream also did a sort-of cover version on Mantra a few years back too.
It would be their last major hit, although DJ/singer Sonique would join S-Express for the follow up album Intercourse in 1990/91 before becoming a very successful solo artist in her own right.
Now onto the alright stuff. Advea’s I Thank You, not quite as good as her previous House tracks but decent enough, Deborah Harry’s I Want That Man, I’m a bit biased being a Blondie fan but a good Pop/Rock track from that period and very playable now too. A decent rap tune from De La Soul with Eye Know and I also didn’t mind the Janet Jackson’s Rhythm Nation tracks either… although I wouldn’t consider them essential.
Dance wise a few more Hip House tracks too although they’re half-decent including Double Trouble & Rebel MC’s, Street Tough and D-Mob/Cathy Dennis’s, C’mon & Get My Love although they’re nothing special and not in the same league as Electribe 101, The Beloved and see later 808 State for me. Technotronic… don’t know whether to like it or hate it? Blasted out at a bland holiday resort or cheesy club/disco it works very well especially if you’ve had a few. But it’s not fit to even have the word ‘Techno’ associated with it let alone be considered in the same class as the Detroit originators of Techno, it’s not that much better than 2 Unlimited (sic). I probably enjoyed it at the time, mind you I’d probably have found listening to The Orb, Adventures Beyond The Ultraworld, hard going back then… know which one I’d choose now! Likewise I probably liked the Italian House stuff like Mixmaster’s Grand Piano at the time, now I see it as pure cheese, although worse music was around at that time and worse Dance track have been made since.
Lisa Stansfield was okay but a bit boring for me and heard that track and ‘her baby’ to death and not as good as her earlier tracks with Coldcut either. Beginning of her move into the bland Pop/Soul market she’d enjoy for a few years in the early ‘90’s. Sydney Youngblood was the same for me too… not bad, alright but not that great either!
Promo wise we got Malcolm McLaren, Depeche Mode, Queen and The Wonderstuff. I liked Depeche and Malcolm McLaren out of that lot and shame they didn’t/couldn’t have done a studio.
Now we start to get on to (IMO) the poor quality stuff. Curiosity Killed The Cat’s, Name & Number – which would ironically be used by De La Soul a few years later, washed over me and didn’t really do much for me. Didn’t actually mind Tina Turner’s, The Best but looking back it sounds like the soundtrack to an American beer commercial and it’s been karaoked to death so can take and leave it. Ditto Cher’s, If I Could Turn Back Time not really fussed about her music generally, but don’t actually dislike her – indifferent!
Erasure have been a band I could not really get into. Strange as they do on the face of it decent Synthpop I normally like and I’ve like Vince Clarke both with Depeche and Yazoo and some of the solo stuff he’s done… see the Happy Monday’s later he successfully remixed WFL/Wrote For Luck for them. But I’ve always found Erasure overblown, too theatrical and apart from Ship Of Fools nothing they’ve done has attracted me!? That Abba EP being the worst example for me. Drama! was alright but sounded like a Pet Shop Boys outtake to me… didn’t sound any different from start to end and forgettable. No offence to any Erasure fans here and yes there’s worse MUCH WORSE lurking on these repeats but there’s something I just don’t get about them!
Some C*ck Rock now from Aerosmith and WASP… not really for me although it’s interesting how similar WASP’s song and video was to Guns N’ Roses November Rain which came out a few years later.
Not really fussed about the tracks from Billy Joel, Wet Wet Wet, Deacon Blue, Bros, The Beautiful South Kate Bush, Eurhythmics etc. plodders which don’t really go anywhere for me. Martika’s, I Feel the Earth Move, hmmm should have been left alone definitely one of those covers which… let’s say Toy Soldiers was better! Chris Rea’s, The Road To Hell and Phil Collins, Another Day In Paradise have the air of faux politics about them, strange as both artists were courted by the Yuppie ‘Dahlings’ (sic) a few years earlier. Rea’s track is trying to be clever strange considering it’s subject matter he had/has a Ferrari collection and as for Collins at the time fair enough, a few years later he threatens to leave the UK to tax dodge, so the sentiments in ‘Another Day’ are totally hypocritical IMHO. Again no disrespect if you’re a fan of either act but both tracks are a bit a dirge for me.
Now bland ballad territory from Richard Marx, Linda Ronstadt & Aaron Neville, Milli Vanilli and strangely Living In A Box. The first three are IMO forgettable tosh especially the Disney one. Surprised at Living In A Box doing a ballad considering most of their previous songs were fairly high tempo and this was one of their biggest hits too. Not really a ballad fan in general to be honest prefer things with a bit more energy and no so much schmaltz if you get my gist.
Pop wise the usual suspects all appear with S/A/W rearing it’s ugly head with Jason Donovan, Kylie, Sonia, Sinitta and annoyingly Donna Summer – should know better!
Now the WORST of all that sodding Jive Bunny with (sic), That’s What I Like. FFS How the hell did this tosh chart, let alone hit number 1 and become the phenomenon it did that year I’ll never know… hopefully it’ll be forgotten as the sands of time move on!
Still things do get better, much better here comes the Manchester invasion!
808 State will feature in this and next weeks episodes with Pacific, a track they did originally in ‘88 with (A Guy Called) Gerald Simpson that became a sort of hit abroad and was then championed by of all people Radio 1’s Gary Davies!
808 State were regulars on Manchester’s club scene for many years with Martin Price owning Manchester’s Dance Music record store Eastern Bloc, Graham Massey being a member of the experimental and Factory Records signed Jazz-Rock band Biting Tongues and Andrew Barker and Darren Partington DJ’s in a Hip Hop/Electro soundsystem The Hit Squad which featured MC Tunes, who would record with 808 State a year or so later. Gerald Simpson was also associated with 808 State in it’s early years too and essentially their career would take a huge leap from Acid House jam sessions on Manchester’s club and illegal party scene to producing working with the likes of Bjork, Bernard Sumner, James Dean Bradfield (Manic Street Preachers), Louise Rhodes, Ian McCulloch and many others in both their own work and production for other artists too.
Pacific was eventually picked up by ZTT a label associated with the epitome of ‘80’s pop like Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Grace Jones and Art Of Noise, but by 1989 it was essentially a sub label of Warner’s and in a remixed form Pacific in it’s 707/202 form hit the UK Top 10 in November ’89. Yes Dance Music was very big at that time, would be very big for years to come but 808 State were around when it first started to take hold in the UK and Manchester particularly and they’d go on to have much success over the coming years with tracks like Ancodia, Cubik/Olympic, In Yer Face, One In Ten (Remix) and albums like Ninety, Ex:El, Gorgeous and Don Solaris.
808 State are now just a duo of Graham Massey and Andrew Barker but they’re still successfully touring and making music including their recent album Transmission Suite which was recorded at the former Granada Studio’s in Manchester that also played host to New Order’s successful series of concerts ∑(No,12k,Lg,17Mif) which were also recorded there in 2017 too.
This weeks showings will have the episode which featured The Stone Roses (Fools Gold) and Happy Mondays (Hallelujah) back to back.
An awful lot has been made over the years about this episode being a watershed moment, a seismic shift etc. of where the ‘80’s ended and the ‘90’s began… even though it’s still 1989! For me yes it’s an important episode as on the whole I’ve liked both bands, but I do think over the years a lot of media spin and legend has been put on their ‘Madchester’ ‘takeover’. Both the Monday’s and Roses had been around since the mid ‘80’s at least and they had steadily been building a profile on both the Manchester and indie scene during from then on so unless you were a strict Top 40/Smash Hits/PWL pop fan you would have been aware of them at the very least by the time they appeared on TOTP. The Mondays perhaps predictably (Factory nepotism?) were regulars on many of the Tony Wilson fronted programmes like The Other Side of Midnight etc. Granada were putting out in the late 80’s and I think both of them had, had a fair few appearances on BBC2’s alternative music slot Snub TV by the summer of 1989. The Roses a few months earlier tasted Top 40 success with She Bangs The Drums and the Mondays were unlucky to miss out on a Top 40 with WFL (Wrote For Luck) which showed their dalliance with Dance Music and featured a music video which lets say showed the layman what was probably going on in clubs like The Hacienda and others at that time.
Even the likes of Inspiral Carpets, The Wonder Stuff, Primal Scream, Pop Will Eat Itself, The La’s and possibly Flowered Up, Teenage Fanclub, Northside and The Charlatans were building profiles around this time too and many of these bands would break the Top 40 quite successfully from 1990 onwards – although with the exception of the Charlatans, Primals and Inspirals this success would be a short burst and probably let’s say the lifestyle some of these individuals in these bands led would make this success a fairly short lived period in the sun.
Indie/Alternative Rock was always around in the ‘80’s and bands like Echo and the Bunnymen. The Jesus and Mary Chain, Coctau Twins, The Wedding Present, The Sisters of Mercy, The Smiths and to a lesser extent The Mission, The Primatives, a pre-‘A Design For Life’, Manic Street Preachers and All About Eve etc. all had various levels of chart success during that period and many of them made TOTP appearances. However give or take a lot of the Indie scene from that period seemed to nail it’s colours closely to the Post Punk/Gothic Rock scene. Even The Roses were sort of a part of that until bassist Mani joined them in ’87 and they started to form more of the sound they’re now associated with. Even Shaun Ryder has claimed The Mondays are a ‘80’s rather than ‘90’s band too.
You can probably say The Mondays/Factory were the turning point as even from as early as ’86 the club culture of The Hacienda along with the late ‘60’s ‘love vibe’ was a big influence on the music they were making along with the emerging Acid House scene which swept in in ’88. So by 1989 you had ‘Indie’ bands who still has much of the Rock swagger and ethos in the music they were making but were just as likely to be influenced by Chicago House, Hip Hop and Dance Music as they would the Gothic, Grunge and Hard Rock scene which didn’t really seem to fit in with what they were doing.
By 1989 the Rock and more generally Pop scenes needed something new and this ‘Madchester’ vibe suited it perfectly. The Roses and Mondays fitted in very well with the booming Dance scene that had been ongoing since ’88 and the likes of WFL, Fools Gold etc. could be dropped in a club setting more easily with Voodoo Ray and Pacific State than they would with say a Sisters of Mercy track from that period. The ‘Madchester’ scene of Manchester also became a focal point for this music to catch on too helped not only by having things like Factory and the Hacienda on the ground but a fairly large student population and youth culture which to many around that time seemed cool and attractive and for a few years left other scenes and cities playing catch up… even if they were as good as what was going on in Manchester back then. Ironically not all of the bands associated with the ‘Madchester’/Baggy scene were from Manchester and even ‘Madchester’ was coined by accident when the Happy Mondays ‘Madchester Ep’ which featured Hallelujah incorrectly used ‘Madchester’ instead of the intended ‘Manchester’!
For people who liked the run of the mill ‘80’s music and Pop and the clean-cut popstars that were/was around prior to this and the House/Dance explosion of ’88 onwards perhaps the emergence of The Roses, Mondays and ‘Madchester’ in general was perhaps not for you. But it was for me and many others who embraced this change at this time and it was so interesting seeing bands like this who to some extent looked like you featuring on TOTP. It was something new, in some respects something interesting/exciting and wasn’t PWL’s (sic) Hit Factory, boy bands like Bros, US-Metal and C*ck Rock bands and acts who belonged in a different era and it’s interesting fans of things that went before embraced this and the lifestyle/attitudes these bands had. You can also argue that the success The Roses and Mondays had as ’89 rolled into the ‘90’s helped pave the way for the likes of Blur – who for me rode the tail end of the ‘Madchester’/Baggy scene, more specifically Oasis and Britpop to gain the success it had in the mid ‘90’s which if say the music scene of 1987 hadn’t really have progressed like it did by 1991 would IMHO never really have happened without the twin pronged assault ‘Madchester’ and Rave/Dance scene had on the charts in the early ‘90’s.
Still things don’t last and (no pun intended) taking off the rose tinted spectacles not everything from that period was wonderful, great or brilliant either… World of Twist, anyone? Also Manchester itself wasn’t as brilliant as the Indie press and ‘Madchester’ hype would have you believe and at the same time it was having a brilliant music scene, club culture and the city’s (rightly IMHO) it’s media and general profile raised ‘Gunchester’ was happening at the same time which would cast a shadow on what was going on at that time too. However to a greater or lesser extent that sort of thing was or would be going on in every major British city at that time and for me I was more interesting in the good things going on in Manchester at that time and even as an outsider looking in I was attracted to the city in the ‘90’s enjoying a lot of what it had to offer , some of which I don’t feel is the same these days!
Despite having what seemed having the world at their feet in 1990 with the monster Spike Island gig The Roses seemed to simply disappear – mainly due to legal problems with their record label/contracts. They didn’t comeback for almost five years with The Second Coming in late ’94. However not everything was rosy within the band at that time and despite their new material that was reasonably well received it was out of step with the Blur/Oasis and Britpop scenes of that period and they seemed to be as dismissed as yesterday’s news as much as they consigned what went before them in ’89 blundering along for a couple more years before splitting. Ian Brown would have a very successful solo career, Mani joined Primal Scream and John Squire had some success as The Seahorses in the late ‘90’s before concentrating more on art projects until the band reunited for gigs and some new material in the 2010’s until again quietly calling it a day in 2017.
The Mondays had an even wilder rollercoaster, probably due to the drug use that pervaded the band way before their TOTP appearance. They went on to have a lot of success in 1990-91 with Pills and Thrills and Bellyaches, and singles like Step On, Kinky Afro and Loose Fit which came from. However their drug of choice switched from Ecstasy to Heroin and bloated by their success they weren’t really in a good headspace by 1992. Factory was also in trouble back then too. Much is written about The Hacienda’s woes and Manchester’s drug gangs were laying siege to it so much it had to close for a time in 1991 and was simply costing the – in reality New Order, a small fortune. Factory pinned their hopes on The Mondays having a successful follow up and packed them off to Barbados to record what would become ‘Yes Please!’ despite the ready availability of Cocaine (Crack) on the island and The Mondays drug problems… you could see where that was heading. Returning to Manchester with unfinished demos when released in Autumn ’92 Yes Please and singles like Stinkin’ Thinkin’ largely went ignored… and didn’t sell. This along with New Order losing patience with Factory and jumping ship to London Records was the end for Factory and the label collapsed in November ’92. The Mondays simply imploded with Shaun and Paul Ryder not on speaking terms for a fair few years and the band generally seemingly ecstasy causalities from ‘Madchester’ and Rave period. However against the odds they’ve been survivors and Shaun and Bez had a successful couple of years in Black Grape in the mid ‘90’s before reforming The Mondays with some new material, eventually the old line up back together again and a fairly successful career on the live scene since the early 2000’s. Even Shaun and Bez have managed to have a fairly decent media career outside The Mondays too, of all the ‘survivors’ of Rock and Pop from over the years, The Mondays must be leading candidates for that crown.
Yes musically things did change after this appearance and these songs hitting the Top 40, however there was still bland, crap pop around in the ‘90’s and now as much as it was before The Roses and Mondays appeared on TOTP, but it and the Dance scene running parallel with it was a revolution and you can’t really say anything else has captured a similar imagination like this did back then since?
I’m certainly going to enjoy seeing them and 808 State on these repeats this week but I do take it as it is rather than the legend which has built up about this performance over the years. Generally as with any TOTP era it’s a case of good, bad and ugly for what you find and see here but there have IMO been good tracks that have featured on these repeats over the last few weeks, although you do have to be selective with your viewing here!
Things seem to have gone quiet about 1990 being repeated, hopefully it will but at the very least at least this period has been well covered and near enough covered in full with these repeats over the last few months!
While none of the music above is really my bag, I have to congratulate you once again DE on an incredibly informative and interesting post You certainly know your stuff in this genre pal. Well done indeed