Cartman
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Post by Cartman on Apr 23, 2019 12:18:27 GMT
The ones they took over from the previous companies, like the Mini, Austin 1100,Rover P6, Triumph Dolomite etc were OK. The next generation such as the Allegro and Marina weren't that good and the ones which took over from them such as the Maestro and Montego were, if anything, even worse. The Metro was a strong seller but it wasn't very good quality. A mate of mine had a C regd one which I got to borrow a few times and it was rubbish. It never ran well and, on one occasion, broke down in the lake district, the AA bloke couldn't fix it so I had to cadge a lift to Oxenholme and finish the journey home on the train.
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Villain
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Nine Elms, 1970, looking for the loot...
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Post by Villain on Apr 23, 2019 13:40:40 GMT
Taken as individual cars and ideas (and ignoring the specific problems each one had early on) I'd say the Triumph Stag, Rover SD1 and the Jag XJ Series were damned good cars. The build quality and internal management / union problems could almost be seen as a separate issue, but the actual concept and design of each of these were sound propositions right from the start. Each one filled a niche, the XJ and SD1 being businessman's barges for slightly different markets while the Stag was a sort of British Mustang in its own way. Villain
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Post by D.C. Burtonshaw on Apr 23, 2019 19:02:35 GMT
Agreeable points Villain and from the rest of the members too.
If you visit the British Heritage centre in Gaydon, Warks, you can see so many missed opportunities of stillborn cars that would have been superb designs and some I'm sure would have sold had they been given the greenlight for production.
I had my first driving lessons on a MK1 Metro and I thought the gearchange was sloppy with a great wand of a gearlever, then when I changed driving schools and learned and passed on a Peugeot 205, it was so much smoother, direct and seemed to handle better and held the road better.
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Post by Gene Hunt on Apr 23, 2019 20:22:38 GMT
I chatted to Villain a few years back about my Dad's experience many years ago when he took a P6 3500 out for a test drive. 1 mile into the journey, the gear stick came out in his hand so we had to call the garage to inform them. They promptly dispatched another 3500 out to us to continue the test but that broke down on the way. We ended up walking back to the dealer and they apologised and offered a 3rd car to try. The old man told them to sod off and off we went to try a different make.
I have had better experiences in a P6 though thanks to Villain who let me drive many a mile in his red P6. Loved that motor.
Gene.
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Apr 23, 2019 20:29:25 GMT
I chatted to Villain a few years back about my Dad's experience many years ago when he took a P6 3500 out for a test drive. 1 mile into the journey, the gear stick came out in his hand so we had to call the garage to inform them. They promptly dispatched another 3500 out to us to continue the test but that broke down on the way. We ended up walking back to the dealer and they apologised and offered a 3rd car to try. The old man told them to sod off and off we went to try a different make. I have had better experiences in a P6 though thanks to Villain who let me drive many a mile in his red P6. Loved that motor. Gene. Same thing happened to my Dad's mark 3 Zodiac!
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Post by Dirty Epic on Apr 24, 2019 6:29:03 GMT
I chatted to Villain a few years back about my Dad's experience many years ago when he took a P6 3500 out for a test drive. 1 mile into the journey, the gear stick came out in his hand so we had to call the garage to inform them. They promptly dispatched another 3500 out to us to continue the test but that broke down on the way. We ended up walking back to the dealer and they apologised and offered a 3rd car to try. The old man told them to sod off and off we went to try a different make. I have had better experiences in a P6 though thanks to Villain who let me drive many a mile in his red P6. Loved that motor. Gene. Interesting test drive Gene. That's how not to sell a car.
Kind of feel sorry for any BL-related dealer in the late 60's/70's. Sadly they probably knew all about the issues with build quality coming from BL back then and dealing with these must've been a nightmare. Although some must have knowingly sold a fair few lemons to unsuspecting/unaware punters too.
It's no coincidence a fair few of these BL-affiliated dealers are no longer here these days, although same can be said for others affiliated to the traditional other marques too. Dealer trade is pretty much now in the hands of a few 'groups' nowadays.
Does this kind of thing still happen with test drives these days? Maybe for used motors but surely not for new cars unless they're the rare, exotic sporting type cars?
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Post by Dirty Epic on Apr 24, 2019 6:35:32 GMT
Taken as individual cars and ideas (and ignoring the specific problems each one had early on) I'd say the Triumph Stag, Rover SD1 and the Jag XJ Series were damned good cars. The build quality and internal management / union problems could almost be seen as a separate issue, but the actual concept and design of each of these were sound propositions right from the start. Each one filled a niche, the XJ and SD1 being businessman's barges for slightly different markets while the Stag was a sort of British Mustang in its own way. Villain Fully agree Villain. The Rover SD1 was a great car for it's time both in the terms of styling and kit it had.
Sadly it was let down by BL's poor build quality in it's early years with issues like the equipment not working, water leaks, corrosion problems etc. etc. which lost it ground mainly to German rivals like BMW, Mercedes and Audi but also and ironically to the Ford Granada too. Also a bit like Ford's Sierra it's (then) futuristic styling and lack of saloon/estate models probably put the traditional P6 buyers off. Now if BL/Rover had have offered a saloon/estate version of the SD1 along with the coupe prototype that's at the British Heritage Centre in Gaydon who knows...
I'll have to get along to that museum someday.
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Cartman
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Post by Cartman on Apr 24, 2019 8:28:57 GMT
I also liked the Triumph TR7, it was an interesting, stylish and strongly made car. Another issue affecting the British car makers at the time was long waiting lists, at one point in 1977,there were six months plus waits for Escorts and Cortinas, when Datsun and Toyota, among others, had plenty of cars in stock.
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Villain
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Post by Villain on Apr 24, 2019 18:30:38 GMT
Taken as individual cars and ideas (and ignoring the specific problems each one had early on) I'd say the Triumph Stag, Rover SD1 and the Jag XJ Series were damned good cars. The build quality and internal management / union problems could almost be seen as a separate issue, but the actual concept and design of each of these were sound propositions right from the start. Each one filled a niche, the XJ and SD1 being businessman's barges for slightly different markets while the Stag was a sort of British Mustang in its own way. Villain Fully agree Villain. The Rover SD1 was a great car for it's time both in the terms of styling and kit it had.
Sadly it was let down by BL's poor build quality in it's early years with issues like the equipment not working, water leaks, corrosion problems etc. etc. which lost it ground mainly to German rivals like BMW, Mercedes and Audi but also and ironically to the Ford Granada too. Also a bit like Ford's Sierra it's (then) futuristic styling and lack of saloon/estate models probably put the traditional P6 buyers off. Now if BL/Rover had have offered a saloon/estate version of the SD1 along with the coupe prototype that's at the British Heritage Centre in Gaydon who knows...
I'll have to get along to that museum someday.
Get yourself along to Gaydon asap mate, you won't regret it. Something they've been doing for a while now is that when you buy a ticket on entry you can come back again for free within twelve months, it's well worth it anyway because their collection is so large that they have to shuffle the exhibits around from time to time. Each tine you go back you'll see something different. A few years ago they bought the five hundred plus car collection of a dentist called Dr.Hull, mostly British in origin but he had a penchant for the Italian stuff too, he'd buy several of each type and add it to his collection. Villain
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Apr 24, 2019 19:09:36 GMT
I also liked the Triumph TR7, it was an interesting, stylish and strongly made car. Another issue affecting the British car makers at the time was long waiting lists, at one point in 1977,there were six months plus waits for Escorts and Cortinas, when Datsun and Toyota, among others, had plenty of cars in stock. I like it, right up to the inside of the rear window. From that point to to the back of the car I think the styling is a bit naff. Prefer the TR6.
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