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Post by Arthur Pringle on Dec 30, 2021 16:47:34 GMT
I didn't watch it as I'm not a David Tennant fan.
But to add to the subject I'm not convinced that the BBC or any other broadcaster is interested in diversity, if they were we'd see a wide range of programming on the main channels- we don't.
If all the word 'diversity' means is making sure you have a few non White faces in the cast or an 'issue' shoehorned into the script then it will always smack of appearances & tokenism. There are next to no foreign films shown on tv outside of Film 4, very few films or shows from the past shown outside of tptv, very little representation of older people & next to no community programming reflecting the lives of ordinary Brits.
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Sparky
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Post by Sparky on Dec 30, 2021 18:04:23 GMT
If all the word 'diversity' means is making sure you have a few non White faces in the cast or an 'issue' shoehorned into the script then it will always smack of appearances & tokenism. There are next to no foreign films shown on tv outside of Film 4, very few films or shows from the past shown outside of tptv, very little representation of older people & next to no community programming reflecting the lives of ordinary Brits. A couple of writers I know would argue that Arthur. I know for sure, three of them went through the mill with their scripts - producers handed them pages of notes of stuff that needed to be included to meet the BBC's diversity criteria - a 300 page book (the news/editorial one is 600 - no doubt there will be another 200 added for Covid and all that).
Point is - these scripts were handed in, accepted as "goers", and then put into the 'development stage' - where the writers were hauled in for meeting after meeting and asked to change their storyline/plot to suit what the BBC agenda.
All three writers pulled their scripts - two now commissioned by Netflix, another by Sky - both their 'development stages' - and interferance is much less, and the money & terms much, much better.
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Cartman
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Post by Cartman on Dec 30, 2021 18:22:01 GMT
This, to me, sounds like the kind of thing which would have happened in some kind of dictatorial regime like Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia.
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Dec 30, 2021 18:23:20 GMT
If all the word 'diversity' means is making sure you have a few non White faces in the cast or an 'issue' shoehorned into the script then it will always smack of appearances & tokenism. There are next to no foreign films shown on tv outside of Film 4, very few films or shows from the past shown outside of tptv, very little representation of older people & next to no community programming reflecting the lives of ordinary Brits. A couple of writers I know would argue that Arthur. I know for sure, three of them went through the mill with their scripts - producers handed them pages of notes of stuff that needed to be included to meet the BBC's diversity criteria - a 300 page book (the news/editorial one is 600 - no doubt there will be another 200 added for Covid and all that).
Point is - these scripts were handed in, accepted as "goers", and then put into the 'development stage' - where the writers were hauled in for meeting after meeting and asked to change their storyline/plot to suit what the BBC agenda.
All three writers pulled their scripts - two now commissioned by Netflix, another by Sky - both their 'development stages' - and interferance is much less, and the money & terms much, much better.
Interesting, sounds a nightmare for the writers, would drive me up the wall. I'll keep going with this show for a while yet, I generally like David Tenannt.
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Sparky
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Post by Sparky on Dec 30, 2021 18:44:30 GMT
This, to me, sounds like the kind of thing which would have happened in some kind of dictatorial regime like Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia. The news agenda and reporting is something to be questioned as it is.
Though with writers, many have complained about interference from above - not just with the BBC, but a majority of broadcasters across the board. And Hollywood.
From what I've heard, it seems to be the BBC that are taking it all too seriously. Mind you, they scrapped the constitution in 2015/16, kicked out the board and replaced them with David Camerons mates.
Both the Writers Guild and BECTU predicted that the BBCs 'impartiality' would go as a result.
I can see Arthurs point as a viewer; though on the other hand, from those on the opposite side of the screen - it appears to be a different "story".. excuse the pun.
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Post by Nightfly on Dec 31, 2021 3:24:25 GMT
If all the word 'diversity' means is making sure you have a few non White faces in the cast or an 'issue' shoehorned into the script then it will always smack of appearances & tokenism. There are next to no foreign films shown on tv outside of Film 4, very few films or shows from the past shown outside of tptv, very little representation of older people & next to no community programming reflecting the lives of ordinary Brits. Point is - these scripts were handed in, accepted as "goers", and then put into the 'development stage' - where the writers were hauled in for meeting after meeting and asked to change their storyline/plot to suit what the BBC agenda.
Somewhere on my bookshelves, in between Gene Hunt's Guide to Modern Policing, Halliwell's TV Guide and the Janet & John Easy-readers, is a book on writing for TV dating from around 1979. It's by Malcolm Hulke who wrote for everything from Dr Who to Crossroads. He describes British TV as a rich place for new writers with something to say compared to Hollywood where they crave newcomers with challenging scripts, then hire ghost writers to rip it apart so it's not controversial. Sounds like the Beeb have reached the latter stage these days.
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Dec 31, 2021 8:45:59 GMT
It's all a form of censorship, along with the modern concept of you mustn't offend anyone. New criminal offences have been created to back this up so just saying something that is considered wrong gets you into legal trouble.
There seems to some push back from the current government to stop the cancel culture but we'll have to see if it makes any difference.
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Post by Sparky on Dec 31, 2021 8:47:54 GMT
Point is - these scripts were handed in, accepted as "goers", and then put into the 'development stage' - where the writers were hauled in for meeting after meeting and asked to change their storyline/plot to suit what the BBC agenda.
Somewhere on my bookshelves, in between Gene Hunt's Guide to Modern Policing, Halliwell's TV Guide and the Janet & John Easy-readers, is a book on writing for TV dating from around 1979. It's by Malcolm Hulke who wrote for everything from Dr Who to Crossroads. He describes British TV as a rich place for new writers with something to say compared to Hollywood where they crave newcomers with challenging scripts, then hire ghost writers to rip it apart so it's not controversial. Sounds like the Beeb have reached the latter stage these days. Trevor Preston, Troy Kennedy-Martin, Roger Marshall and Mr Rosentahal plus many others all have said, the 60's to the early 80s was the golden era for writers. They could write without too much interference - deadlines were the only bug bear - Producers and Script Editors were a bit more adventurous. Malcolm Hulke was a great writer.
In those days, if you had an idea - you could just have a meeting with a Producer and discuss it; normally there and then, they'd tell you if they would be interested.
Many producers/directors had ideas, so would contact a known writer to help get it onto screen (Auf Pet and the Knowledge came about this way)
These days, a lot of Directors write their own stuff, fund it, make it, edit it, sort any distribution because many TV companies are too specific on what they want in their scripts. Even the soaps do it. Though, if you do write off spec stories / scripts - there is a market via the smaller independent producers - though the budgets aren't amazing.
I worked on something in 2008 (can't say what at the moment as it's in a "development" process), that was made as a short film. Originally proposed to go on BBC3 - it got pulled for some unknown reason, the Director/Producer instead put it into various Film Festivals. A Film company has picked up the idea to make it as a full length feature film.... in short, they were better off not getting it on BBC3. Thing is, I worked on the film for next to nothing - and an agreement was any "sales" or revenue the film generated, I could receive a percentage to level up the wages. Hopefully the agreement still stands.
Point is - a lot of Directors have to be creative behind the scenes in getting something on screen.
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Dec 31, 2021 9:42:42 GMT
I worked on something in 2008 (can't say what at the moment as it's in a "development" process), that was made as a short film. Originally proposed to go on BBC3 - it got pulled for some unknown reason, the Director/Producer instead put it into various Film Festivals. A Film company has picked up the idea to make it as a full length feature film.... in short, they were better off not getting it on BBC3. Thing is, I worked on the film for next to nothing - and an agreement was any "sales" or revenue the film generated, I could receive a percentage to level up the wages. Hopefully the agreement still stands.
Point is - a lot of Directors have to be creative behind the scenes in getting something on screen.
Hope you get your due rewards.
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Post by Dirty Epic on Dec 31, 2021 11:01:48 GMT
Somewhere on my bookshelves, in between Gene Hunt's Guide to Modern Policing, Halliwell's TV Guide and the Janet & John Easy-readers, is a book on writing for TV dating from around 1979. It's by Malcolm Hulke who wrote for everything from Dr Who to Crossroads. He describes British TV as a rich place for new writers with something to say compared to Hollywood where they crave newcomers with challenging scripts, then hire ghost writers to rip it apart so it's not controversial. Sounds like the Beeb have reached the latter stage these days. Trevor Preston, Troy Kennedy-Martin, Roger Marshall and Mr Rosentahal plus many others all have said, the 60's to the early 80s was the golden era for writers. They could write without too much interference - deadlines were the only bug bear - Producers and Script Editors were a bit more adventurous. Malcolm Hulke was a great writer.
In those days, if you had an idea - you could just have a meeting with a Producer and discuss it; normally there and then, they'd tell you if they would be interested.
Many producers/directors had ideas, so would contact a known writer to help get it onto screen (Auf Pet and the Knowledge came about this way)
These days, a lot of Directors write their own stuff, fund it, make it, edit it, sort any distribution because many TV companies are too specific on what they want in their scripts. Even the soaps do it. Though, if you do write off spec stories / scripts - there is a market via the smaller independent producers - though the budgets aren't amazing.
I worked on something in 2008 (can't say what at the moment as it's in a "development" process), that was made as a short film. Originally proposed to go on BBC3 - it got pulled for some unknown reason, the Director/Producer instead put it into various Film Festivals. A Film company has picked up the idea to make it as a full length feature film.... in short, they were better off not getting it on BBC3. Thing is, I worked on the film for next to nothing - and an agreement was any "sales" or revenue the film generated, I could receive a percentage to level up the wages. Hopefully the agreement still stands.
Point is - a lot of Directors have to be creative behind the scenes in getting something on screen.
Like your insights here Sparks and agree with everything you say.
Things have just become to complicated with focus groups, agendas, closed shops (actors and producers) and over-polished productions which just feel too forced and staged for me. Much of what was on over Xmas had no interest for me in fact some of what was or has been on TPTV was more interesting than pretty much everything on BBC One for example.
Shame really I'm sure there's a lot of creative people out there who've been burned by how things operate these days... whereas say 2/3 decades ago they'd have got these ideas to the screen.
That film seems interesting Sparky when it's all in the works keep us posted as might be something I'd like.
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