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Post by Sparky on Nov 18, 2019 7:40:21 GMT
I was stupid enough to buy an LCD TV one of the first generation in the early part of this century. It was a 17 inch flatscreen which I bought to replace a 14 inch CRT. I went for that so i could get rid of the huge bracket on the wall the CRT needed as part of a kitchen upgrade. I didn't pay top whack for it paid 400 for it when a 14 inch CRT was about 130. A year or so earlier the flatscreens were about 600 to 800 quid for the small size TVs As Arthur found these type of tv was worse than the CRT in everyway. One of the worst things with these early TVs was the refresh rate. This was so slow that if watching anything fast moving you would see a trail or blur effect. Things like football. I kept my Mitsubishi 32 CRT for another eight years off of the strength of that. I replaced that with an LG Plasma in 2009. The plasma was only really on par with the CRTs. These flatpanel TVs were struggling to match the older technology, which had 40 years of development in colour where as the flat screens only really became available in the late 90s and took a good ten years at least to catch up. The Flat Panel TV technology came from the world of Computers, who started using them. Though the colours shown from a computer are much more brighter & brasher than those used in Broadcast. Even graphics created on computers for use on TV have to be adjuisted so the colours fit within a standard (monitored using a Vectorscope) Most decent range, video editing software packages available for your PC have a software Vectorscope / Waveform Monitor etc, so you can adjust and calibrate your films before putting them on DVD. This has been invaluable for my current project of digitising 30odd 6 hour VHS tapes of my other 1/2s - as the tape are of varying quality.
I saw a demonstration of First Generation LCD screens in Currys about 20 years ago - and wasn't too impressed (in price and quality) - given that the 10 screens they had on display were all showing the same image, but all had different colour tones, some looked too saturated, others too washed out, others seemed to have colours missing. So - not been set up correctly.
As a demonstration - they were showing ITV4, at the time a repeat from Series 1 on "Minder" - using copies of the original broadcast master - so the colours were everywhere, scratches and blemishes were bumping everywhere.
I still prefer the CRT we have in our front room, the kids have a small flat screen to connect their Xbox/PS4 to and there is a noticeable difference.
Plasma Screens are designed for HDTV in mind and aren't too bad. I haven't seen what Blu Ray looks like on them.
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Lord Emsworth
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Post by Lord Emsworth on Nov 18, 2019 8:48:38 GMT
I was stupid enough to buy an LCD TV one of the first generation in the early part of this century. It was a 17 inch flatscreen which I bought to replace a 14 inch CRT. I went for that so i could get rid of the huge bracket on the wall the CRT needed as part of a kitchen upgrade. I didn't pay top whack for it paid 400 for it when a 14 inch CRT was about 130. A year or so earlier the flatscreens were about 600 to 800 quid for the small size TVs As Arthur found these type of tv was worse than the CRT in everyway. One of the worst things with these early TVs was the refresh rate. This was so slow that if watching anything fast moving you would see a trail or blur effect. Things like football. I kept my Mitsubishi 32 CRT for another eight years off of the strength of that. I replaced that with an LG Plasma in 2009. The plasma was only really on par with the CRTs. These flatpanel TVs were struggling to match the older technology, which had 40 years of development in colour where as the flat screens only really became available in the late 90s and took a good ten years at least to catch up. Yeah. I think we've all learnt the hard way when it comes to buying technology when it first arrives on the market.
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Post by Dirty Epic on Nov 18, 2019 22:31:34 GMT
To me those early LCD digital sets seemed blurry a bit like looking like the old style US NTSC stuff compared to the previous CRT's in the early 2000's some interesting insights Sparky too about the tech coming from the PC sector seems a bit like reverse engineering to me. Got a 10 year old Panasonic LCD right now which does the job well, will replace it as/when I move but still doing a good job and when I use my Blu Ray it upscale's 1080p etc very well. Are the current sets massively better than that now?
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Sparky
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Post by Sparky on Nov 19, 2019 7:23:56 GMT
To me those early LCD digital sets seemed blurry a bit like looking like the old style US NTSC stuff compared to the previous CRT's in the early 2000's some interesting insights Sparky too about the tech coming from the PC sector seems a bit like reverse engineering to me. Got a 10 year old Panasonic LCD right now which does the job well, will replace it as/when I move but still doing a good job and when I use my Blu Ray it upscale's 1080p etc very well. Are the current sets massively better than that now? They will be better. But I would think - that would depend on what material you are watching. With Archive, there is a limit to how much better something made 50 years ago can look.
The big thing with Plasma screens - which became their selling point - was the move from "interlaced" to "Progressive" scanning. Interlaced Scanning is used by most TVs - where each second, the TV will scan lines 1-625 for the first half second, and then 2-624 for the second half of the second. The lines are "interlaced" together to make a single picture each second. The lines are quite noticeable in fast moving scenes - or if you play back a DVD on a PC Monitor (as that works at a different frequency).
"Progressive" scan is one complete frame every second - as with a strip of film.
There is quite a difference in the quality of the picture of Progressive Scan - much brighter and sharper, less flickery.
Stuff like the Sweeney or the ITC filmed stuff - would certainly look much better in Progressive scan - as it was made on Film, using a Film Camera - which of course, would be Progressive Scan.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 9:03:32 GMT
I remember when I was a kid we didn’t get our first color tv! Till 1976 lol quite bizarre really! Especially when I think we didn’t have a telephone either till around this time! at the time I remember us having two Black and white TVs, one in the lounge and a old 60s B & W one in my playroom, it consisted of brown wooden screw on legs and gold and brown material over the speaker grill! And had about 4 preset push buttons like pegs! With the name of the channel written over them! BBC1, BBC2 ITV and the fourth one was a spare lol! Guess scarce regarding channels back then! and to add insult to injury, BBC2 was as painful as a poke in the eye! Particularly because it didn’t start till about noon every day and then all ya got was the usual typical open university programs like the ones portrayed in the tv series Life on Mars’ and so until noon you were subjected to that famous BBC test card of the girl and the chalk board. Looking back what was interesting and funny about this tv was that when you switched it on the valves would take ages to get warm and come to life! Consequently this meant you were subjected to a small dot in the centre of the screen which after a few minutes eventually increased in size until the picture appeared! I was reminded once of this funny memory when I was watching the young ones on tv, and Vivienne said’ whilst watching tv, I wish we had a video so I could record the dot’ and watch it in the morning! and so when we did get that color tv in 76’ for the lounge! I was absolutely buzzing with the awesomeness of it! and never watched that old B & W in my playroom ever again lol! it’s amazing how since then TVs have gone a long way! what with size and quality and are just no big deal now really! but back in the day if ya had a color tv which was a 26” instead of the usual norm 20” or 22” you were considered a bit spoilt or maybe a bit of a snob!
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Dec 15, 2019 9:59:24 GMT
I remember when I was a kid we didn’t get our first color tv! Till 1976 lol quite bizarre really! Especially when I think we didn’t have a telephone either till around this time! at the time I remember us having two Black and white TVs, one in the lounge and a old 60s B & W one in my playroom, it consisted of brown wooden screw on legs and gold and brown material over the speaker grill! And had about 4 preset push buttons like pegs! With the name of the channel written over them! BBC1, BBC2 ITV and the fourth one was a spare lol! Guess scarce regarding channels back then! and to add insult to injury, BBC2 was as painful as a poke in the eye! Particularly because it didn’t start till about noon every day and then all ya got was the usual typical open university programs like the ones portrayed in the tv series Life on Mars’ and so until noon you were subjected to that famous BBC test card of the girl and the chalk board. Looking back what was interesting and funny about this tv was that when you switched it on the valves would take ages to get warm and come to life! Consequently this meant you were subjected to a small dot in the centre of the screen which after a few minutes eventually increased in size until the picture appeared! I was reminded once of this funny memory when I was watching the young ones on tv, and Vivienne said’ whilst watching tv, I wish we had a video so I could record the dot’ and watch it in the morning! and so when we did get that color tv in 76’ for the lounge! I was absolutely buzzing with the awesomeness of it! and never watched that old B & W in my playroom ever again lol! it’s amazing how since then TVs have gone a long way! what with size and quality and are just no big deal now really! but back in the day if ya had a color tv which was a 26” instead of the usual norm 20” or 22” you were considered a bit spoilt or maybe a bit of a snob! '76! You were lucky! When I was a kid we didn't get colour telly till '79, which was a naff rental set that kept breaking. We only got BBC2 in '75. You had to turn it on a Sunday to watch Midweek on a Wednesday. And if you tell that to kids today they won't believe you. (Should be done in a broad Yorkshire accent).
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Sparky
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Post by Sparky on Dec 16, 2019 11:46:17 GMT
I remember when I was a kid we didn’t get our first color tv! Till 1976 lol quite bizarre really! Especially when I think we didn’t have a telephone either till around this time! at the time I remember us having two Black and white TVs, one in the lounge and a old 60s B & W one in my playroom, it consisted of brown wooden screw on legs and gold and brown material over the speaker grill! And had about 4 preset push buttons like pegs! With the name of the channel written over them! BBC1, BBC2 ITV and the fourth one was a spare lol! Guess scarce regarding channels back then! and to add insult to injury, BBC2 was as painful as a poke in the eye! Particularly because it didn’t start till about noon every day and then all ya got was the usual typical open university programs like the ones portrayed in the tv series Life on Mars’ and so until noon you were subjected to that famous BBC test card of the girl and the chalk board. Looking back what was interesting and funny about this tv was that when you switched it on the valves would take ages to get warm and come to life! Consequently this meant you were subjected to a small dot in the centre of the screen which after a few minutes eventually increased in size until the picture appeared! I was reminded once of this funny memory when I was watching the young ones on tv, and Vivienne said’ whilst watching tv, I wish we had a video so I could record the dot’ and watch it in the morning! and so when we did get that color tv in 76’ for the lounge! I was absolutely buzzing with the awesomeness of it! and never watched that old B & W in my playroom ever again lol! it’s amazing how since then TVs have gone a long way! what with size and quality and are just no big deal now really! but back in the day if ya had a color tv which was a 26” instead of the usual norm 20” or 22” you were considered a bit spoilt or maybe a bit of a snob! Same here - we didn't get our first Colour set until 1979. I still think the set was bloody jinxed - we had the set during August 1979; two weeks later ITV went on strike - and the station was off air until October. Leaving us with BBC1 and a bit of BBC2 offerings only.
Then in 1980, during a massive thunderstorm, our aerial was struck and it blew the thing up - during an afternoon episode of "Playschool".
Just as they were going through the Arched window too.... so that did royally p*** me off. (It was always the interesting stuff behind the Arched window).
If you were a viewer in the Channel Islands - they didn't get colour TV until the summer of 1976.
As the IBA and BBC struggled to find a way of getting the signal from the mainland. They had to develop a new aerial capable of getting the signal as far as Alderney, and then use a relay signal from there to Jersey.
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Post by Dirty Epic on Dec 16, 2019 12:16:45 GMT
That TV aerial mishap had me in stitches, sorry Sparky but I imagine a Young One's style blow up of your set there!
Does sound like that TV had the old jinx/possession thing going on there. Do things like that still happen with modern sets? you don't really hear of it these days.
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Sparky
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Post by Sparky on Dec 16, 2019 12:44:29 GMT
That TV aerial mishap had me in stitches, sorry Sparky but I imagine a Young One's style blow up of your set there!
Does sound like that TV had the old jinx/possession thing going on there. Do things like that still happen with modern sets? you don't really hear of it these days. You don't hear of it much these days. A majority of people have their aerials in the loft.
Though, I think most, if not all, TV sets are fitted with Surge and In Rush protection anyway - which protects against static/lightning etc.
It could also be an "earthing" thing too - older sets did use an Earth Wire from the mains plug to the Chassis. Newer ones are Class 2 - and so only use L/N, and don't need an earth. So in effect, there isn't a direct earth path through the set.
Lightning protection for electronic devices isn't very expensive, and in basic cases is just a simple component.
I saw a photo once of a the lightning protection on a metal TV transmitter. Of course, the tower is metal, at the bottom was a huge Glass cylinder is a "Spark Gap" inside, one side connected to the tower, the other to Earth. The gap inside between the electrodes was about 1ft, so would need a mass of energy to jump over that.
Frightening when you think that mass of energy went through my TV set....
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Three Litre
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Post by Three Litre on Dec 16, 2019 16:08:36 GMT
You don't hear of it much these days. A majority of people have their aerials in the loft.
Though, I think most, if not all, TV sets are fitted with Surge and In Rush protection anyway - which protects against static/lightning etc.
It could also be an "earthing" thing too - older sets did use an Earth Wire from the mains plug to the Chassis. Newer ones are Class 2 - and so only use L/N, and don't need an earth. So in effect, there isn't a direct earth path through the set.
Lightning protection for electronic devices isn't very expensive, and in basic cases is just a simple component.
I saw a photo once of a the lightning protection on a metal TV transmitter. Of course, the tower is metal, at the bottom was a huge Glass cylinder is a "Spark Gap" inside, one side connected to the tower, the other to Earth. The gap inside between the electrodes was about 1ft, so would need a mass of energy to jump over that.
Frightening when you think that mass of energy went through my TV set....
I'm surprised it didn't blow the thing clean through the broken window!
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