Villain
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Post by Villain on Feb 19, 2018 10:18:00 GMT
Thanks for sharing that. I used to commute a lot by train and I often wondered what it looked like from the cab. I think I’d love to see the uk like that - as you say, a view not many get! But I also wondered if it would be a bit lonely - you see other people on roads, even in the middle of the night. I imagine it would be even more lonely on a freight service! Are you completely alone? Standing in the middle of nowhere in the dark looking at the stars sounds like a beautiful moment. We're alone in the cab most of the time unless we're being assessed or have another driver with us who's learning the route, but it's only for a few hours at a time. At night we see other freight drivers a lot when we pass each other and the odd passenger driver (usually switching the cab light on and give each other a wave to break the monotony) but during the daytime we see plenty of people. In bad weather sometimes you don't see much at all, in really heavy fog you can only see about ten feet in front of you so at 60mph we're relying on our knowledge of the route which we have to know off by heart (we have to sign a legal document confirming we know it and get tested on it), some of our trains run at 75mph so you need to brake earlier. On a foggy night sometimes you can't see the signals until you're a few yards away so you really do need to know exactly where you are at any time. Villain
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Cartman
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Post by Cartman on Feb 19, 2018 23:10:21 GMT
Interesting stuff Villain, I’ve had two cab rides, one from Manchester Victoria to Radcliffe in, i think 1981 in one of the class 504 electric units, I knew one of the guards on the line who got me a trip up front one night coming home late from work. That line is a switchback, close spaced stations and a lot of sharp curves and gradients. The steepest one is between Whitefield and Radcliffe, about 1 in 45 and they used to get up to quite a speed down it which used to really bounce you around!
The other one was on the East Lancs Railway, where I got to drive and fire an LMS class 5, being a fireman was better exercise than going to the gym!
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DI Alex Drake
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Post by DI Alex Drake on Feb 19, 2018 23:28:33 GMT
Thanks for sharing that. I used to commute a lot by train and I often wondered what it looked like from the cab. I think I’d love to see the uk like that - as you say, a view not many get! But I also wondered if it would be a bit lonely - you see other people on roads, even in the middle of the night. I imagine it would be even more lonely on a freight service! Are you completely alone? Standing in the middle of nowhere in the dark looking at the stars sounds like a beautiful moment. We're alone in the cab most of the time unless we're being assessed or have another driver with us who's learning the route, but it's only for a few hours at a time. At night we see other freight drivers a lot when we pass each other and the odd passenger driver (usually switching the cab light on and give each other a wave to break the monotony) but during the daytime we see plenty of people. In bad weather sometimes you don't see much at all, in really heavy fog you can only see about ten feet in front of you so at 60mph we're relying on our knowledge of the route which we have to know off by heart (we have to sign a legal document confirming we know it and get tested on it), some of our trains run at 75mph so you need to brake earlier. On a foggy night sometimes you can't see the signals until you're a few yards away so you really do need to know exactly where you are at any time. Villain Wow. So you know the routes inside out. How do you go about learning them? I know a little more about trains than the average bear (though still not a massive amount) because my older brother and my dad were mad on steam/vintage railways. Dad has an amazing model layout in the loft, but it means I spent almost every Sunday at a heritage railway between the ages of 5 and 11. And we still go there today sometimes. The concentration must tire you out. I know someone who was an air traffic controller until he retired and the stress levels were through the roof!
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Cartman
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Post by Cartman on Feb 19, 2018 23:38:47 GMT
I have a model railway in the loft too! There’s a pic of it in the technology 1960s to 90s thread. Villain will know more than me about route learning, but I do recollect an ex Bury driver, who passed out as a footplate crew sometime in the early 60s, that they used to accompany a crew on a route, to learn speed restrictions and where the signals were and when you were satisfied that you knew it, you told the shed foreman who would then sign you off for it.
I suspect it’s probably a bit more formalised now
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Villain
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Post by Villain on Feb 21, 2018 12:04:36 GMT
Yes learning the route is achieved by riding with other drivers on various jobs until you're confident that you know it intimately, then you have to fill in a questionnaire on the route and sign it, you'll also be asked verbal questions by the Inspector / Manager at your depot or possibly one from another depot who knows the route. That's only the start of it though - any driver will tell you that you don't get to really know a route until you've driven over it yourself in all weathers, day and night. My very first solo run after I'd passed out as a driver and signed my first route was to take a light loco at 75mph from Rugby to Willesden at night in a pea souper fog where visibility was down to about ten feet, I can tell you that my Aris' was certainly twitching for most of the trip but my route knowledge kicked in and I knew exactly where I was and what was coming up ahead! When I say we need to know each route intimately I mean it - we have to know the geography of the line, the names of each running line, goods loops (and how long they are), yards, sidings etc, where each signal is, how far apart they, which signalbox controls them, what each signal can or cannot display, what moves can and cannot be done from them, which signals have had multiple SPADs, every station, junction, level crossing (including which type they are, there are lots!), farm crossing, foot crossing, bridge, viaduct, tunnel, gradient, speed restriction etc. If you've not driven over a particular route for six months you have to put in for a day's refresher on it to keep the knowledge intact. On the freight side we also have to know which bridges carry speed restrictions for specific types of wagons due to their weights when loaded. At some depots depending on where you're based you could be working the same route day in day but at our depot being centrally based we cover quite a large area, to give an idea here's my route card (a few of our lads cover even more routes than I do)... West Coast Mainline : Willesden - Crewe via Northampton and Kilsby, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham and Wolverhampton, Trent Valley line via Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield and Stafford, Grand Junction lines via Stechford, Aston, Perry Barr, Bescot, Darlaston and Bushbury plus the Portobello loop to Wolverhampton, Sutton Park line via Water Orton, Aldridge, Walsall and Pleck, Coventry to Nuneaton branch, Coventry to Leamington branch and the Bletchley to Bedford branch. Radiating outwards from Birmingham I sign the old Great Western route down through Tyseley and Solihull to Leamington, Banbury, Oxford and Didcot, plus the Chiltern line from Banbury to Northolt and Old Oak Common (just outside Paddington), Birmingham to Leicester via Nuneaton and Wigston, Birmingham to Stourbridge and Brierley Hill via Droitwich, Birmingham to Gloucester via Droitwich, Worcester and Cheltenham. From Leicester I sign the Midland Mainline up to Toton Marshalling Yard (Sandiacre) and down to Cricklewood via Oakham, Corby, Market Harborough, Kettering, Wellingborough, Bedford and Luton. Also in the London area I sign the connecting routes between the West Coast, Chiltern and Midland Mainlines where they all join up around Willesden, Neasden, Acton and Cricklewood, plus further south to Clapham and Battersea via two separate routes through Chiswick, Barnes, Wandsworth, Kensington Olympia and Latchmere. Boring it ain't! Villain
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Cartman
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Post by Cartman on Feb 21, 2018 13:26:23 GMT
Let me guess what you drive. Class 66s?
Fascinating stuff Villain, I see a container train passing through Wilmslow every Wednesday night while my lad is at his football training, heading for Trafford Park. Would you take those as far as Crewe? Your area of operation seems to be much wider than they would have been years ago, the guy who was a driver and fireman at Bury shed said the furthest he ever got was Hellifield.
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Villain
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Post by Villain on Feb 21, 2018 17:04:51 GMT
Let me guess what you drive. Class 66s? Fascinating stuff Villain, I see a container train passing through Wilmslow every Wednesday night while my lad is at his football training, heading for Trafford Park. Would you take those as far as Crewe? Your area of operation seems to be much wider than they would have been years ago, the guy who was a driver and fireman at Bury shed said the furthest he ever got was Hellifield. Yes mate 66s. On Heavyhaul we don't work that many 'liners, usually only to cover Intermodal drivers and the furthest north we go with them is Crewe. With fewer drivers now than in BR days our route knowledge has to be quite extensive, overlapping with drivers from other depots. Villain
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DI Alex Drake
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Post by DI Alex Drake on Feb 21, 2018 20:48:34 GMT
Very interesting, thanks for sharing! You've got to know a lot of miles there, that's crazy! But then, I took up a job in September doing admin and marketing for an estate agency and I thought there's no way I will ever learn all the different properties but now it's second nature. So I guess we've all got the ability to remember a lot of detail if you work at it!
My dad loves Class 37s - especially those with split head codes! But I used to hate them when I was little and said they made the trains look ugly :p. I much prefer steam aesthetically speaking! But a Class 66 is still a lot nicer to look at than an HST which is all I normally see.
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Cartman
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Post by Cartman on Feb 21, 2018 22:43:27 GMT
Cheers Villain, talking about 37s, I remember a thread on a railway forum by a driver and he rated them as the best loco he worked on. From memory, he didn’t rate class 40s, said they were overweight and underpowered, preferring 47s.
Is the Lickey incline in your territory, by the way? 1 in 37 between Bromsgrove and Blackwell
On steam, the driver I used to know liked the Ivatt class 2s, and 8Fs but they didn’t get any of those until very late in the steam era, the L & Y section seemed to get the stuff that other parts of the LMR didn’t want, WD 2-8-0s were common there and were notoriously rough and noisy, I am just about old enough to remember watching them shunt Radcliffe Goods yard when I was about 7 or 8
Happy days!
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DI Alex Drake
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Post by DI Alex Drake on Feb 21, 2018 23:22:56 GMT
I can't seem to find the technology thread you mentioned with the pictures of the model railway? I have been staring at a screen with deadines most of the day so I think I've just run out of brain function, but if you could humour me by telling me which section it's in, I'd love to take a look!
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